luciferous: (umineko; 遅すぎた答えさえ)
Relle ([personal profile] luciferous) wrote2013-11-19 07:36 pm

Umineko Episode 7: Chapter 17-18, Tea Party, ????

The Day the Witch Revived

  • It is interesting to note that the chapel was built at the same time as the mansion, as that would mean suggest the relief and the keys and lion statues were ALSO all set up back when the mansion was first built. Meaning Kinzo had the epitaph planned out the entire time and just never actually displayed it for other people, which... seems kind of odd. What's the point of setting up something that complex and specific if he isn't going to use it?

  • I am rather curious where on the island exactly the hidden stairway is down the VIP room is. I think the other games probably mentioned it but I do not recall.

  • Genji's question about whether she got there all on her own seems to suggest he wasn't actually watching Beatrice open the stairway; maybe he just walked past the chapel and noticed the device had been triggered?

  • Yasu's logic for why she becomes the "true" Beatrice after solving the epitaph seems to be that, because Kinzo believed the person who solved the epitaph would be Beatrice, she's succeeding the position from the original person Kinzo thinks of as Beatrice.

  • Yasu also notes that she'd decided on her own that solving the puzzle would "resurrect" Beatrice in her play-world, but because she actually is taking Beatrice's position in reality, Beatrice truly is being resurrected. Nice lining up of events there.

  • Genji and Kumasawa are both on about how it's a Big Deal that Yasu in particular was the one to solve the epitaph, and Yasu's just like ?__?

  • Kinzo's line about how he did something bad in spite of "knowing how Beatrice felt" make it fairly obvious he's apologizing to Kuwadorian Beatrice in specific. The way everyone else is just going along with letting Kinzo use Yasu as a stand-in for K-Beatrice when Yasu has no idea what's going on seems kind of side-eye worthy on their parts. Yasu obviously gets that she's a stand-in, but she also seems to just be going with the flow until someone explains to her what's happening.

  • Basically because Kinzo is so convinced only Beatrice could solve the riddle, the only way for Kinzo to get this outlet and receive forgiveness is if the person who solves it becomes Beatrice. One of the other Ushiromiyas could solve it, but then Kinzo wouldn't get the same release, so Genji and the others are specifically setting it up this way for Kinzo's sake. The truth of Yasu's identity really seems incidental; I have to wonder if Genji would have tried this charade even if someone else had been the one to solve it.

  • Genji apparently did not tell Kinzo about Yasu's identity or even that she was still alive until just this moment, probably when he went into the study before Yasu. Seems a surprisingly short conversation for a huge reveal like that...

  • Kinzo is using "giving you everything of the Ushiromiya family" to mean giving her the headship, apparently. I seem to recall that same phrasing was used in other episodes to mean killing the family members, so I wonder if this meaning can also be applied in those situations?

  • While I am very firmly of the opinion that Kinzo is a raging dick responsible for a number of truly terrible actions throughout the series, the fact that he really does sincerely seem to be sorry for the pain he caused K-Beatrice and Lion/Yasu is nice. Not enough to make up for what he did, but enough to make him less of a heartless monster. Also the fact that he seems to be aware of how awful the shit he did was.

  • The fact that Yasu specifically states she can't recognize him as her father and is willing to call him that anyway in an effort to make him feel some of his sins are forgiven says a lot about her personality, I think.

  • And the fact that Kinzo literally just falls over and dies after receiving Lion/Yasu/Beatrice's forgiveness shows you how desperately he was holding on to the hope that his miracle would happen and he could be granted that tiny bit of forgiveness.

  • While Beatrice is the one shown to be "present" for this whole sequence, the hesitancy and confusion really makes it seems like Yasu is the one driving; this sort of behavior isn't especially in keeping with the established personality for Beatrice. On the other hand Yasu is being bombarded with so much new and confusing information right now that she has no idea how to process it at all and might've just stayed as Beatrice due to overload. [Admittedly this is me not having played through the rest of ep7 recently and thus not remembering in great detail what Beatrice's personality was like at this stage, so I could be totally off!]

  • The comment about how she just wants to stay on the island and continue to wait like before is definitely Beatrice out in full force, though.

  • "And...... I became the true Beatrice, the Golden Witch. Right here in my very own Golden Land. If I think about it, not much has actually changed. After all, I've always been the Golden Witch. ...I've just had a few more people acknowledge that."

  • Clair's comment associates becoming a "true witch" with becoming the true ruler of Rokkenjima and possessing the gold, which makes sense enough.

Breakdown of the Witch's Illusion

  • The duel between the furniture would have been settled regardless if "it" had happened one year sooner or one year later. Your timing sucks ass, Battler.

  • So Yasu takes a leaf from Kinzo's book and puts all of her self into hoping for a miracle. Meaning she just leaves everything up to fate and goes along with whatever it decides in the desperate hope it will lead her somewhere better than this.

  • "Humans will carelessly say that people have infinite possibilities. However, the Endless Witch...... knows how limited those possibilities really are."

  • "So out of her limited fate, she tried to create the infinite. By entrusting her fate to God, she tried to create the infinite."

  • "However, this is not mean that she was resigned to her fate. She spun the roulette of fate with an unshakable and certain will. A certain fate, where absolutely no one could escape if the epitaph was not solved. [...] October 4th and 5th, 1986, were sealed away by an absolute and certain will...... and she abandoned herself to that short span of time and the many fates that could be chosen on that island."

  • The fact that Clair still thinks no one will ever understand her even after all of that explanation is incredibly depressing. Though she does acknowledge that Will did get it, and is happy that someone was able to even if that person wasn't Battler. Stupid Battler.

  • Clair hopes Lion will "live as a human, without awakening as a witch", and that ze will have "a whole and single soul".

  • The "last rites" Will has to perform as the detective is basically seeing through every mystery Yasu presented, or "cutting the truth out from the fiction", as Will says. Appropriate for the mystery genre that the detective has to explain every mystery before the story can really end.

  • The "I" in the "Who am I?" question is still not entirely clear to me. The "promised reaper" in Will's answer seems to refer to the doom clock, but Beatrice or Yasu would be the witch, not the reaper, since the two are distinct.

  • And much like Kinzo, after Clair is able to receive her miracle of someone understanding her heart, she immediately passes away without regrets, because that's all she was really living for at this point.

  • Though Will instead attributes the miracle to be Clair meeting Lion and seeing the possibility Lion contains. Which is also true, I think; Yasu's definition of a miracle seems to be someone being able to understand her, but that's in "reality". Meeting Lion is only possible in the world of witches and fragments, so while it's possible from a meta standpoint, it's not something the Yasu on the game board can achieve. But it does have a similar effect of letting Yasu know it's possible for her to be happy in spite of everything, so I think Will's right in that it could serve as an alternate miracle.

  • "That kid died without folding up her game board."

  • "This tale of intertwined loves ends thanks to an absolute and certain willpower. ......Out of respect for that certain willpower, the Witch of Certainty made that kid a witch for just two days. [...] I won't be bestowing my favor, so no miracle will occur. ......However, even that ending is something that child wished for."

  • Y'know, in spite of Bern's assholery throughout the whole thing, she is the one who combed through the fragments to find Lion, so if you consider meeting Lion the thing that was able to give Yasu peace, then it's actually thanks to Bern that it even managed to happen.

  • I kind of feel like the "observer witches" Bern refers to in this bit are actually the players... In which case the "there are no witches who do not think" line and the surrounding comments are pretty hilarious, since it's basically Bern saying that you should be able to figure everything out with that and if you can't you're a moron.

Tea Party

  • I'm assuming Lion "awakening as a witch" refers to Yasu solving the epitaph and resurrecting Beatrice. But it seems as though it should be theoretically possible for there to be a fragment where the cliff incident still happens and Yasu's self still fractures, but Beatrice is never revived. In which case the Rokkenjima Incident probably never happens and Yasu alternatively wallows around in her misery before killing herself or something. It would be kind of interesting to see one of those fragments.

  • And Lion knows Ange is from a fragment where the Rokkenjima Incident happened because Ange refers to the 1986 conference as the "final" conference.

  • I'm with Lion in wondering how Clair is even here, given the whole point of the scene with Will was to kill her... Most likely it's as Ange said and this is just a piece!Clair who was hijacked by the other witches.

  • It's interesting to see Lion and Ange's different perspectives on the "truth". When Lion says ze knows the truth of the tale, ze means ze understands the heart of it and the purpose behind it, and can thus dispel any illusions regardless of what events occurred in the game board. To Ange, on the other hand, knowing the truth means knowing the exact sequence of events that occurred and who was responsible for them; an understanding of the reasoning and meaning behind the events isn't actually necessary. Their truths are almost completely irrelevant to each other; Lion doesn't really care what the exact sequence of events was, and the only reason Ange would want to know about the events' purpose is because it would tell her who the culprit is. They're really not on the same wavelength at all here.

  • In spite of Ange insisting Oct 4th is basically the same in all game boards, this version really lines up the best with ep1. The big divergence happens when the siblings decide to work on the epitaph instead of continuing to squabble about the letter.

  • Another difference between this and ep1 is that a lot of the issues with Battler and Yasu are more out in the open. Battler remembers liking Shannon when he was younger, and that he probably said some stupid things to her, and George is upfront about his jealousy of Battler, which Shannon insists is unwarranted.

  • "In these six years, I've sorted out my feelings for Battler-sama, and cut myself off from them along with the memories of the past. Now, I exist only to love you."

  • Beatrice is rather distressingly emotionless as she's talking to the siblings after they discover the gold. Not sure if it's just because she'd resigned herself to dying, if she's upset the wrong people solved it, or because Beatrice herself is dead and someone else (Clair?) has taken over.

  • She also claims that she made the riddle. Why, Beato, why.

  • Someone solving the epitaph is the only path in the game board where Beatrice herself dies before the doom clock goes off, which I always found interesting. She keeps Kinzo's rule that whoever solves the epitaph becomes the new Beatrice, meaning she herself has to step down from the position. But that just leaves Yasu in kind of a weird limbo state where her primary personality is gone, so she really has nothing left to do with herself other than wait for death. It's honestly incredibly depressing, and Eva's insistence that Beatrice's behavior means she's hiding something from them is kind of cringe-worthy in that context.

  • Though I wonder why the clock was even on in the first place, considering it's still only the 4th and Beatrice's time limit doesn't run out until midnight of the 5th...

  • Krauss really is a sly bastard when he wants to be. The way he forces the other siblings to go along with his terms because he's the only one who can actually cash the gold is pretty skillfully done. (Though, as Lion points out, if the siblings were actually thinking rationally that argument wouldn't work and Krauss wouldn't be able to gain much of an advantage. He only pulls it off because no one is thinking clearly.)

  • "The sneering, formless reaper, master of the room of gold, had swung its scythe once more." Interesting line to ponder, since Hideyoshi killing Krauss isn't anything Yasu orchestrated, so she can't be the "master" it's referring to. (Especially since she's no longer Beatrice at this point.) Perhaps it's the same reaper from the final line of Clair's last rights? Even though in this case it's not the clock doing the reaping, and seems to be more the murderous atmosphere that's made all the siblings lose their minds...

  • Eva and Hideyoshi are both pretty suspect in this scene. Neither of them seem to have any actual regret about killing the others, and are focusing instead of how to spin it as an "accident". I'd expect this from Eva, but getting it from Hideyoshi as well is kind of odd.

  • Rosa's "fuck you I'm not helping you clean up your messes" reaction to Eva and her counter-plan are pretty awesome, I have to say. She's taking advantage of Eva's less-than-rational state to twist the situation in her favor.

  • And while Kyrie has a point about the gold being difficult to convert to money, considering that we know Genji has already converted some of it, she really seems to be underestimating the reach of Kinzo's connections, which weakens her argument a fair bit. [Also I need to go back to ep1 to check the amount of debt the siblings were in, because I feel like it's entirely possible that since they're in debt for large companies rather than just personal finances, Rosa really may actually need more than 300,000,000 yen to feel like she's getting a substantial amount out of this. That's about $3 million, which is plenty of money for one person but a lot less if you're trying to fund a company.]

  • Kyrie writing off Battler as Rudolf's problem because he's not her son does get a reaction from Rudolf, you can tell. Not enough of one for him to actually tell her the truth, of course, but enough that he looks pretty uncomfortable for about... a minute.

  • The "Kinzo wants you to come do a test" parallels to ep4 here are interesting, since it seems kind of odd that Kyrie and Rudolf would come up with a scheme so similar to Beatrice's.

  • I have no real comments on the murder spree other than christ Kyrie is evil.

  • I remain highly disbelieving of this board actually being Rokkenjima Prime, no matter what Bern says in red.

  • Bern's claim that Lion's fragment played out exactly like the one we just saw is also rather difficult to believe, considering the number of variables in Lion's fragment that are just completely different...

  • Bern also refers to Yasu's miracle as Lion.

  • "S-Steal the Italians' gold, you say? You coward, Ushiromiya! And you call yourself a soldier of the Empire?!!"

  • This "bad" scene is still the odd one out to me, since unlike the other two it's not supported by the narrative. It's already very clear from the story that Lion/Yasu was born because Kinzo forced himself onto K-Beatrice, and while the specific nature of Yasu's injury isn't very clearly shown before, it fits in pretty much perfectly with what we've seen regarding her gender issues. This scene with Kinzo, though, actively contradicts what we've seen in the story; considering Kinzo's personality it's certainly not difficult to believe, but it's odd for Umineko to show us something that actually goes against what it's said before. The previous sequence was obviously from Kinzo's own perspective, so it's not hard to see why he'd change parts of it to make himself look better, but it still seems out of place when compared to how the rest of the series reveals information to the reader.

  • "......F-Father......? I-I do love and respect you, Father...... B-But... your feelings are something I, ummm......"

  • "Why...?!! Why did you save me?! Why didn't you let me die?! Because of that terrible injury...... I've been forced to live in a body like this!! I never wanted to live in a body like this!! This body that isn't even capable of love......!! What's... What's the point of living like that?! This isn't a human's life...!! It's like being furniture!! That's right, I'm furniture...!! Furniture...!! Why...... Why didn't you let me die back then?!!"

  • Will is a motherfucking badass who makes everything better. Though it's also interesting to note that he's embodying the themes of Higurashi more than Umineko in this part, what with the "screw fate and make your own miracles" argument he's making here.

  • You think you're so cute with your ~ten quadrillion~ cats, don't you Ryukishi.


  • It's actually not clear from this bit whether the "answer" Featherine is referring to is the heart of the mystery Clair revealed to Lion, or the fragment shown in the Tea Party. It's possible to argue it either way, since you could say Bern finished reading for her after the main part of ep7 and the Tea Party was just something she did on her own to get back at Beatrice. The line at the very beginning of this section about knocking the two white chess pieces over does suggest this scene takes place immediately after the Tea Party, chronologically, but the Tea Party's place in the actual narrative isn't made explicit.

  • I am not clear on this Ange's status; since Sorceror Battler is there it's obviously not a game board or the real world, but I don't know why there'd be a six-year-old Ange wandering around in the meta world.

  • The presence of Sorceror Battler shows that this bit isn't written by Bern, at least.